Conclusion of the test

Yesterday I did a little social test. I didn’t want to say the purpose or the expectations in advance, but wanted to see what reactions I would get. As it was pointed out to me, most (?) of the readers come here for information about ddo and aren’t too interested in the social bit, so I do not plan on continuing this thread after this. But I wanted to talk about what I learned from my little experiment.

The reason for the experiment was that I felt like I was once again seeing prejudge when making some comments. People were reacting much stronger than I felt they should have, and I got accused of trolling and attacking someone. I didn’t feel like I was doing any of that, I might have been a bit rude, but I didn’t consort to name calling, and none of the things I said were intended to agitate the reader or poster. To me, a troll is someone who only makes comments with the intent of causing a negative reaction. I don’t feel like I do that. To be honest, I’d rather you call me a jerk and an asshole than a troll. Because a jerk to me is someone who says mean or thoughtless things, a troll is someone with a mission. But enough about that, back to the experiment.

I feel like there is a group of people that have been saying untrue things about me behind my back, creating prejudge among the community. I am sensitive, thoughtless and a bit of a jerk at times, but what I really don’t like is when people gossip behind my back to create prejudge. The blog post yesterday was an attempt to stop the gossiping, to try and clear the air, to create a clean slate.

The result? The initial reaction felt pretty good. The people who commented seemed to be hearing me, they were supporting and offered some much appreciated advice. But then as I was clicking around twitter I stumbled upon a conversation where my blog was mentioned. I was accused of bad behavior, being obsessed, the blog was called tacky and victimizing. I guess that’ll teach me.

I can’t stop the gossiping. I can’t force anyone to talk to me if they don’t want to. But no matter what you think of me, your words still hurt.

Ok, Social experience over. Back to ddo.

P.S. To the people who are there for me and support me when I need a shoulder to cry on, you don’t even know how much you mean to me.

P.P.S. To the people who gossip and create bad air, I can’t stop you from doing it, but I can do my best to ignore your words.

Over and out

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21 comments on “Conclusion of the test

  1. Hey there, as I know Even would never say anything, nor call you out, I almost feel like it’s my place to say something on her behalf. Even is a friend of mine both in, and out, of game. She’s one of the most passive people I know, and it takes a fair bit to get her riled. (I know, I’ve tried to rile her, and failed.)

    I can think of only one thing that would rile her, and that would be accusing her of “cheating” or “exploiting”. While you may not have said it in so many words, that is how it appeared to myself, and several others on one of the recent posts about her pally. No, she wasn’t bragging about being “unkillable”, nor was she intentionally using a loophole, and I can assure you she did NOT build her toon to exploit a flaw in DDO’s programming. That’s simply not how she works. Did it happen? Yes, however not intentionally. My own pally, I found out, has the same thing going on. We didn’t find this out (on my own pallly) till we were in PvP trying to kill one another to see if it was taking away turns, or if it was, in fact, “broken”.

    Also, clearly you’d read her blogs, seen her tag on the forums, etc, she has never, nor would she ever call her toon “Evannote”. It always has been, and always will be “Evennote” I know you have changed how you spell it since I called you out on it a bit ago, however, that (in my opinion) was an intentional slight, and childish attempt at trying to get her attention and force her to say something, thus talk to you. As I said earlier, she’d never say something. She would be the adult, ignore it, and go about her day. Me? Nope. I’ll say something. I’ve lived too long trying to please everyone, and keep those around me happy, soliving their problems, not anymore. Now, I don’t really care who I offend. My real friends will always be there and accept me for the asshole that I am.

    As someone stated in a comment on your earlier blog post. Let it go. She is trying her best to do her own thing, and live her own life, of what others think, and all that jazz. Please, do the same and whatever you feel you need to say to her. Write it in a note, and then burn (or delete) said note and call it good. That way, you’ll (in theory) feel you’d said what you need to say, and you both can go about your days.

    I’m really not trying to be an ass. (For once) I’m simply trying to get you to let it go, and give my friend a chance to quit having her name thrown around. Oh, in regards to you feeling as if people are talking about you? We’re not. I can honestly say I don’t believe your name (or gamer names) has come up other than when she mentioned her blog, and I (I, not she) went on a tangent on her blog. Other than that? I wouldn’t know you from Tom, Dick or Harry.

    Feel free to delete this if you please, it makes no matter to me. Just take a moment to read it, please.

    S-

    • Hi. I replied in pm.. if the email you gave is in fact your email. If not, it’s lost in cyber space. I hope you read it.

      Believe what you will, I didn’t use the wrong name intentionally. I have been using the wrong name for years and no one until now has said anything. Same thing has happened on the ddo forums, I called someone repeatedly by the wrong name (one letter difference) until someone pointed it out to me. Once you have the name in your head, you stop reading what it actually says.

  2. Sometime people will expose themselves without much help and other times a little bit of nudging make things a bit more entertaining. Stay true to yourself and everything will become clear as day.

  3. Despite my better judgement to stay out of the spotlight, I decided to share my experience I have with Thaz. This took place over 1 ½ year ago. I came back to the game looking for my friend because something didn’t felt right with the sequence of events that took place prior to leaving the game.

    Long story short, Thaz was one of the few people I asked if she have seen my friend. While waiting to see if my friend would show up, I ran with Thaz a little bit to help her and pass some of my game knowledge to her. This was partly to make right of what was done wrong in the past.

    Initially, I asked Thaz not to mention me in her blog because I knew drama follow where I go and I did not want to put Thaz in a bad situation. As time went by, the odds of seeing my friend looked grim. I didn’t have much choice as I was about to leave the game and decided to ask Thaz to help even if this mean putting her in a position leading to gossip. I told her what she would be getting herself into. She agreed. After another chain of events, friend did came back and I had a talk with them. I was correct Thaz’s action would lead to more gossip and asses will always be asses.

    While Thaz is not the easiest person to get along because of her bluntness, her heart is good and in the right place. She is one of few people that went out of the way when she hardly knew me or need to.

    Time people should look in the mirror and ask themselves who is more mentally ill;
    Someone who went out of the way to make a public apology to something she does not know what she did or a bunch of hypocrites leaving out and manipulating information to start shit up.

    I am still around because of my friend even when we are not able to run with each other at the moment. Helping people out is something my friend and I do and we have fun doing so by competing with each other at the same time.

  4. I’m glad she helped you out; truly, I am.

    My experience has been… somewhat different. I’ve seen her post snide comments on my friend’s blog. I’ve seen her outright attack my friend. I’ve seen her start blog posts crying about how my friend is mean to her when *she* is the one being the aggressor. And then when that didn’t get her as much sympathy as she felt she deserved, she started emailing.

    Sure, Even and friends commented about her on Twitter. BUT NOT BY NAME (well, friends maybe, but not Even). And not until after the post where Micki specifically called HER out, BY NAME.

    And when she started emailing Even’s friends with that information… sure, she was mocked for that also. Because what *they* were saying was, as Micki pointed out, in public, whereas MICKI was emailing people PRIVATELY… and then crying about how people were talking about *her* behind *her* back.

    Note the chain of events here:

    1) Even posted a blog about a filk that she had written a few weeks earlier, and included a video that she happened to take that night that went along nicely with that filk.

    2) Micki responded by pointing out that there was a bug and slyly hinting that Even was exploiting.

    3) A bunch of us pointed out that no, she wasn’t exploiting, because the bug was preventing her from doing something she actively wanted to do (namely, die).

    4) Somebody pointed out how *she* used to exploit tree form.

    5) Micki got all defensive and claimed it was OK because “Tree bug was helping the players, but also it was so openly used that the devs would have been blind not to notice it. The paladin bug is a bit different, as it’s not as obvious and much less used.” Translation: “Everyone was using that bug, so it was OK! Not as many people are using this bug, so it’s an exploit!”

    6) It was pointed out (again) that there was a difference between knowingly using an exploit to help yourself, and unknowingly being affected by a bug that’s doing something contrary to what you want to do.

    7) Micki, all defensive, says “give it a rest” even though she’s the one stirring the pot, and adds that she hasn’t used tree form since the bug was fixed. In other words, once she could no longer exploit it.

    8) Micki insists, once again, that Even is bad for using the bug, although all her friends are accusing *her* of being bad for pointing out that she’s using the bug.

    9) It gets pointed out, YET AGAIN, that there is a huge difference between knowingly using something to your benefit, and unknowingly using something to your detriment. One is an exploit, the other… is not.

    10) Micki refuses to back down from her point that “Even is using an exploit”; we refuse to back down from our point that “No, she really isn’t.” Micki also continues to misunderstand the point about the blog, which was simply a filk about paladins in general, NOT about how specifically unkillable Evennote is.

    11) Even posts a video about all her pets, which impresses another blogger enough to write about it as well

    12) Micki says (on the other blog) she can’t understand why anyone would want to waste money on a bunch of pixels, despite not knowing how much money has been “wasted” on them, and despite that being, quite frankly, none of her concern because it’s not *her* money either way.

    13) Flame war on the blog. Yes, it went both ways; yes, I was as much to blame as Micki. Mea culpa. In the process, Micki complains about Even and her friends telling lies about her behind her back.

    14) Micki posts a blog titled “Even”, about Even. Note the nouns there. MICKI posts a blog about EVEN, not the other way around.

    15) Even says something on Twitter about it, not naming anyone by name.

    16) Some of us respond to Micki’s post.

    17) She replies, in private email, about how awful Even is for talking about her behind her back. When A) she posted first; B) Even didn’t mention her by name (unlike Micki); and C) Micki was emailing in private complaining about Even… aka Micki is talking about Even behind her back *while simultaneously complaining about Even talking about Micki behind *her* back*. Which, uh, hypocrisy much?

    So, again, note the order of events. Also note how much could have been avoided if Micki would simply *stop* and leave Even alone.

    • Dear L (having issues spelling your name, so using L).

      I posted the Even blog in an attempt to apologize and say sorry for insulting her, sorry for what I’ve said etc. Even has and will refuse to speak to me directly, so this was my last attempt to try and fix things. The result? I was mocked publicly.

      Yes, I sent a few emails. Why? Because I didn’t want to have any more public flame wars. Because I felt like I wanted Even’s friends to hear my version of the story and not only what she has been saying. Yet again, I am the bad.

      Yes, I did accuse Even of cheating. Why? Because she’s accusing me of trolling. Childish? Juvenile? I’m sure. But since she’s choosing to resolve this over 3 year old issue by calling me a troll publicly, while ignoring any attempt I’ve made at talking to her.. this is what I did.

      I will always defend myself.. it’s what I do. But I realise that this is a battle I cannot win. And I need to”let it go”. Well, all this shit talk on twitter is making me both angry and very sad. Some of these ppl I use to call my friends and would have done anything for them. I make one wrong move and it’s a public mocking.

      I am stubborn, and I will stick to my opinion. I will not change my opinion because someone is disagreeing or is feeling hurt by my opinion. Back in 2014 I had not met one paladin that could do what I needed them to in my raids, ergo I called them useless. Rude and tasteless? Maybe. Trolling? No. Do I not know to back off when I should? Yes.

      Pointing fingers is just dumb. Saying I can’t accuse Even of cheating because I was using a tree bug back when is completely missing the point. I don’t really care if she’s using a bug or not. What I do care about is her attitude towards me. This hate spreading. I have no hate for any of you, but I am feeling hated upon. And have been for years now. Why do I care? Because it doesn’t feel right. So, I say the wrong thing once in a while. So what? Do you always say the right thing?

      • You want to stop feeling hated upon? Stop hating upon Even. I guarantee you, we’ll stop talking about you as soon as you do, because we just don’t give a good God damn about you. At least, until you attack her for, as far as we can tell, no reason whatsoever. And no, “trying to resolve a years-old issue” is not a reason. YOU’RE the one trying to spread hate. And guess what, you’re succeeding… just not in the way you expected. Oops.

        Don’t accuse her of cheating when she’s not. Don’t accuse her of cheating when she’s being affected by a bug that’s doing something she doesn’t want to do. I don’t know about you, but if I’m going to cheat, it’s going to be to my benefit, not my detriment. Don’t try to compare her being unknowingly affected by a bug to her detriment to your blatant and knowing use of an exploit to your benefit in a manner that makes your exploiting seem less bad simply by dint of “everybody knew about it and was doing it.” Because knowingly using an exploit is far, far worse than unknowingly using one. When you’re actively trying to die and something is preventing it… that’s a bug, not an exploit.

        Don’t make condescending remarks about her hobby. Just settle for the warm glow of feeling smugly superior if you wish. Nobody is making remarks about your hobbies (except, I suppose, the one of trying to get a rise out of Even. Too bad for you you’re simply getting a rise out of everyone else instead).

        No, I don’t always say the right thing… but I also don’t go out of my way in an attempt to piss someone off just for the sake of pissing her off. Perhaps you’ll feel less need to defend yourself, if you spend less time attacking Even.

        And where did she call you a troll? I haven’t seen any of that. Hasn’t been on her blog, hasn’t been on her Twitter, hasn’t been on the forums.

      • I haven’t been attacking Even. You are the one who’s getting worked up and angry over a dumb comment which then has escalated to all the things you feel I have done wrong. So you see me doing that?

        I am happy you are protecting your friend, but in the bottom off it all, I attempted to apologize.. and what did y’all do? Finger point, mocking, accusing me of starting drama.

        She called me a troll on the PC, then there was a comment on her blog “You’re the one who was trolling Even on the PC”. If this was someone who was on the PC, they would have known who I was and what was said (if they cared about what was said, most didn’t). How would they know that, if Even didn’t tell people outside the PC as well?

        Over the last 3 years since, here’s the stuff I have done to Even:
        – Commented on her blog once in a while. Most of it intended to be positive. I don’t care enough to actually look for what I said. Feel free to do it if you want.
        – Tried to understand why she seemed to hate me. This was over 3 years ago.. I emailed around asking what I could have done for her to give me attitude
        – Called paladins useless on the PC. Was never intended to insult Even, but I argued my point until she put me on ignore.
        – Pointed out that she is using a bugged feature in her video, and the right thing would be to report it herself. Especially since she has proof.
        – Saying I don’t get her hobby on Geoff’s blog. Calling it pointless.
        – Blocking her as well as putting her on ignore on twitter as well as unfollowing her blog on wordpress, so I wouldn’t by mistake put my foot there again.
        – Wrote a public apology
        – Noticed it was mocked by her and her friends, so sent a screenshot of the mockery to a few people. Not in an attempt to rant, but because I wanted you to see what she really is like. The person I have experienced for the last few years.

        I would like to point out, that no matter if Even was knowingly using the bug or not, by using it.. SHE IS STILL USING A BUGGED FEATURE. If she didn’t know, but was told about it, the right thing would be to report it. Not get angry and upset at the person pointing it out.

        The comment on Geoff’s blog was probably dumb of me. I just didn’t expect you to follow and start attacking me for it. I don’t think Geoff would have even moderated his blog if you hadn’t. Comment was a bit tasteless, but not over stepping it. On the forums it would have been permitted unless you’re a known troll.. which I’m not.

        I have done dumb things, but I was honestly trying to apologize in my blog. Did you even read it?

        I see that you are very angry and I am the target for said anger. I could recommend some boxing or maybe a nice jog?

        Truth be told, there are people I like and there are people I don’t. But funny thing.. some of the people I don’t like are still better people than the ones who go around calling ppl trolls and drama starters on public media. Some of the ppl I run with can be real jerks at times, but they’re honest jerks. Not shit talking back stabbers. I’d take the jerk any day over the shit talker. Hell, that’s why I married Darth.

        Goodbye L. Feel free to never come back.

      • *Well, let’s just take this point by point.”I haven’t been attacking Even. You are the one who’s getting worked up and angry over a dumb comment which then has escalated to all the things you feel I have done wrong. So you see me doing that?” – No, I see you attacking Even. “Gee, you’re cheating!” “Gee, this looks like an exploit!” “Gee, if you’re using a bug to keep yourself alive, you’re cheating by using an exploit!” “Gee, I can’t imagine wasting so much money on useless pixels!” – these are all attacks, or at least perceived as such by the majority of people I’ve seen react to it.”She called me a troll on the PC, then there was a comment on her blog “You’re the one who was trolling Even on the PC”. If this was someone who was on the PC, they would have known who I was and what was said (if they cared about what was said, most didn’t). How would they know that, if Even didn’t tell people outside the PC as well?” – Seriously? The PC is hardly a public forum. And don’t even try to tell me that you haven’t bitched privately about Even and the rest of us to Darth or anyone else, because I flat out won’t believe it. Also, was that before or after you stated you wanted to shoot her with a ballista?”– Commented on her blog once in a while. Most of it intended to be positive.” – Oh, you mean positive like “Heck my cleric could prolly tank Horoth if I switch to Sentinel.” and “Oh, I mean, u’ve built a tank. Who’s to tell u u can’t tank? Tell them u can, and then u do it.[image: :)]” from a post where Even was happy at how long she managed to survive solo against Harry and expressed a desire to tank both Horoth and Sully at the same time. The first is saying “Pfft, that’s easy, anyone can do it, EVEN MY CLERIC.” The second almost sounds positive but… the “Oh, I mean…” part really spins it in the exact opposite direction into sarcasm and not actually supportive in the least. (I know there are more examples, but this one came up while clicking on random “Related Posts” a couple of months ago and stuck well enough for me to be able to find it purposely now).”– Tried to understand why she seemed to hate me. This was over 3 years ago.. I emailed around asking what I could have done for her to give me attitude” – perhaps comments like the above might explain it? Or blaming her for drama that she had no part of in the first place, perhaps? To misquote the Beatles, “And in the end the hate you take is equal to the hate you make.” And yes, I know that works in both directions, but you’re always the one commenting on her blogs in ways that really don’t come across at all as “supportive” but instead as “snarky, sarcastic, and demeaning.””– Called paladins useless on the PC. Was never intended to insult Even, but I argued my point until she put me on ignore.” – Hey, that’s your opinion, and you’re welcome to it. But IIRC, you specifically called out Even in that. So yeah, that (intentionally or un) came across as “intended to insult Even.” Or at the very least, troll her (see: above.)”– Saying I don’t get her hobby on Geoff’s blog. Calling it pointless.” – No, you called it a waste of money. Even though you have no idea how much or how little she spent on it. How much money have you spent on DDO over the years, on subscriptions and TP? What do you spend your TP on? Great! That clearly makes you happy; good for you. (You notice how I didn’t wait for a response before saying that? Because it doesn’t matter… because it’s what makes YOU happy, and it’s quite frankly none of my business, nor do I really care.) Some people spend their TP (either purchased, gained through VIP, or earned through questing) on stuff like raid timer bypasses & gold seal hires, or packs and races and classes, or whatever; Even chooses to spend hers on pets. In the end, what’s the difference? Bypasses make some people happy, gold-seal hires make others happy, quest packs so they don’t have to pay the monthly fee for VIP make others happy, and pets make Even happy. And in the end, they’re all pixels on a computer screen.* *Yes, I read your apology. And it came across less like an apology, and more like “Oh, boohoo, poor pitiful me, big mean Even is being mean to me!” It came across as an attempt to create more drama (which it clearly did, sad to say) and get attention (ditto) and paint yourself as the aggrieved party… when everything that happens, EVERYTHING, is in reaction to things YOU instigate (ie, comments on Even’s blogs, comments on other people’s blogs about Even, and a post claiming to want to apologize that really didn’t come across as a sincere attempt to apologize.*

        On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Mickis Delirium wrote:

        > ddomicki commented: “I haven’t been attacking Even. You are the one who’s > getting worked up and angry over a dumb comment which then has escalated to > all the things you feel I have done wrong. So you see me doing that? I am > happy you are protecting your friend, but in ” >

      • Well, let’s just take this point by point.

        “I haven’t been attacking Even. You are the one who’s getting worked up and angry over a dumb comment which then has escalated to all the things you feel I have done wrong. So you see me doing that?” – No, I see you attacking Even. “Gee, you’re cheating!” “Gee, this looks like an exploit!” “Gee, if you’re using a bug to keep yourself alive, you’re cheating by using an exploit!” “Gee, I can’t imagine wasting so much money on useless pixels!” – these are all attacks, or at least perceived as such by the majority of people I’ve seen react to it.

        “She called me a troll on the PC, then there was a comment on her blog “You’re the one who was trolling Even on the PC”. If this was someone who was on the PC, they would have known who I was and what was said (if they cared about what was said, most didn’t). How would they know that, if Even didn’t tell people outside the PC as well?” – Seriously? The PC is hardly a public forum. And don’t even try to tell me that you haven’t bitched privately about Even and the rest of us to Darth or anyone else, because I flat out won’t believe it. Also, was that before or after you stated you wanted to shoot her with a ballista?

        “– Commented on her blog once in a while. Most of it intended to be positive.” – Oh, you mean positive like “Heck my cleric could prolly tank Horoth if I switch to Sentinel.” and “Oh, I mean, u’ve built a tank. Who’s to tell u u can’t tank? Tell them u can, and then u do it.:)” from a post where Even was happy at how long she managed to survive solo against Harry and expressed a desire to tank both Horoth and Sully at the same time. The first is saying “Pfft, that’s easy, anyone can do it, EVEN MY CLERIC.” The second almost sounds positive but… the “Oh, I mean…” part really spins it in the exact opposite direction into sarcasm and not actually supportive in the least. (I know there are more examples, but this one came up while clicking on random “Related Posts” a couple of months ago and stuck well enough for me to be able to find it purposely now).

        “– Tried to understand why she seemed to hate me. This was over 3 years ago.. I emailed around asking what I could have done for her to give me attitude” – perhaps comments like the above might explain it? Or blaming her for drama that she had no part of in the first place, perhaps? To misquote the Beatles, “And in the end the hate you take is equal to the hate you make.” And yes, I know that works in both directions, but you’re always the one commenting on her blogs in ways that really don’t come across at all as “supportive” but instead as “snarky, sarcastic, and demeaning.”

        “– Called paladins useless on the PC. Was never intended to insult Even, but I argued my point until she put me on ignore.” – Hey, that’s your opinion, and you’re welcome to it. But IIRC, you specifically called out Even in that. So yeah, that (intentionally or un) came across as “intended to insult Even.” Or at the very least, troll her (see: above.)

        “– Saying I don’t get her hobby on Geoff’s blog. Calling it pointless.” – No, you called it a waste of money. Even though you have no idea how much or how little she spent on it. How much money have you spent on DDO over the years, on subscriptions and TP? What do you spend your TP on? Great! That clearly makes you happy; good for you. (You notice how I didn’t wait for a response before saying that? Because it doesn’t matter… because it’s what makes YOU happy, and it’s quite frankly none of my business, nor do I really care.) Some people spend their TP (either purchased, gained through VIP, or earned through questing) on stuff like raid timer bypasses & gold seal hires, or packs and races and classes, or whatever; Even chooses to spend hers on pets. In the end, what’s the difference? Bypasses make some people happy, gold-seal hires make others happy, quest packs so they don’t have to pay the monthly fee for VIP make others happy, and pets make Even happy. And in the end, they’re all pixels on a computer screen.

        Yes, I read your apology. And it came across less like an apology, and more like “Oh, boohoo, poor pitiful me, big mean Even is being mean to me!” It came across as an attempt to create more drama (which it clearly did, sad to say) and get attention (ditto) and paint yourself as the aggrieved party… when everything that happens, EVERYTHING, is in reaction to things YOU instigate (ie, comments on Even’s blogs, comments on other people’s blogs about Even, and a post claiming to want to apologize that really didn’t come across as a sincere attempt to apologize.

  5. Using a bug intentionally or not intentionally is still and exploit. I don’t care too much for the reasons they choose to play with bugs, maybe they are lazy to get gear, or lazy to play the game and prefer to just have auto attack running, maybe they just like to stroke their own ego being better than people with kill count. Whatever the case may be, I don’t really consider them much of a good player if they have to use bug to make a build work. That is my opinion and the standard on gauging who is dependable and a good player others can count on in a raid environment.

    Not everyone can be good player. Some people have the reflex and the brain to play the hardest build around, some have the resource (time, money, other players), to make the builds happen. The rest may just be playing casually but still want to keep up with some of the top players around to have fun and socialize. Doesn’t matter how they choose to play, I will set up the raid group according to the build and players.

    This is the main reason I don’t make any comment until they become an ass to the people around them. If someone get offended at me pointing out they are stroking their ego with using bugs, or not playing like a team player, i.e. intentionally spamming greater ruin and start kiting crap around to mock other melee players not able to steal agro, then I question who is being defensive and the aggressor.

    I do not have a pure paladin nor do I build toons to test bugs so correct me if I am wrong, did you just say they did not exploit, intentionally or unintentionally which doesn’t concern me, using an enhancement from eternal defender that prevent them from dying? If she really want to die, then turn off the toggle off?

    Unless the eternal defender revival get carry over even when the toggle is off, I fail to see how anyone can defend they are not using the bug when they leave the toggle on.

    Toggle: While Eternal Defender is active, if you drop below 0 hit points but are not killed, two uses of Turn Undead are immediately expended and you receive a reactive heal for 250 points of Positive Energy healing.

    • And my response:

      No. KNOWINGLY using a bug to benefit yourself is exploiting. Such as, say, using tree form. Or using that thing in AA when you could have *every* imbue toggled was an exploit. Wolf form using TWF (or whatever that trick is) is an exploit. Various duping things is also an exploit. (And please note that I’m not accusing either Micki or you of any of those – except the tree form which she’s admitted to – because I have no knowledge of or even reason to believe that you engaged in those.)

      UNknowingly using a bug that you don’t know about the existence of to stay alive when you’re actively trying to die is not exploiting. Do you see the difference? One, you’re actively trying to exploit the existence of a bug to help you play; the other, you’re not. Oh, and she doesn’t “have to use the bug to make the build work.” The reason she didn’t know about it before? Is because, as I’ve stated *several* times now… IT HAS NEVER BEEN A FACTOR. She just quite simply doesn’t get hurt that badly that often. And I’m including EEs and Legendaries in this.

      I agree: Knowingly using it to keep yourself alive would be exploiting. But not realizing a bug exists because it simply doesn’t crop up? Yeah, no, that’s not exploiting. Especially when it’s actually preventing you from doing something you want to do. Even you have to agree about that. A bug that actually affects you negatively is not an exploit.

      (And hey, if Micki had to use the tree exploit way back when to make her build work… well, what does that say about what you think of her as a player, I wonder. Hmmm…)

      People weren’t offended because Micki pointed out the bug (or even that you apparently think that she’s ‘stroking her ego’ using a bug); people were offended because she all but came out and said Even was exploiting. And that was manifestly not true, no matter what you choose to believe.

      Do you always remember exactly what every toggle all your characters have do? If so, you have a much better memory than me (or perhaps, just fewer characters/toggles, I dunno). Most of my toggles I don’t even look at after the first few times; it’s enough to know that I want it on, and so I go along the hotbar and turn ’em on. My FvS has a bunch of stuff that I turn on when I log on; I don’t know even know what they *are* let alone what they *do* (pretty sure Power Attack is among them, maybe an aura? I dunno). All I know is, I want them on when I’m playing her, and so I turn them on when I log in.

      And the ones that actually remain active when you log off or die? Half the time, I don’t even keep them hotbarred; I have better things to place there than something that never needs hitting… and even if I don’t, I’d rather have the dead space than risk turning it off when my mouse/the game/the interface/whatever goes screwy (I can’t tell you how many times I’ve changed equipment or fired off a buff or chugged a pot while madly flailing around during a momentary loss of control). And yes, I’ve reset enhancements and then gone “WTF, how come this thing that used to happen no longer happens?” a few times. But back to the point, we just quite simply didn’t think of turning off the toggle because we didn’t realize it *was* a toggled stance that was doing it.

      • I came out because someone decide to call Micki mentally ill. I supported her intention to openly apologizing but did not expect the reaction I saw. There is nothing worse than having your intention twisted and spat in your face. I had that happened before and understand how she felt.

        I am not interested in the daily events of the other servers ever since I left the last guild. Now a days, I play to test build ideas and help people out along the way and for my friend.

        I am not going to say how good my memory is, the server I play on knows what I am capable of. I understand where you are coming from not remembering the toggle or know what some of the functions do. I do play with a far range of people. I play with people, like my friend that can keep up with me and even get ahead of me at times to people that play the game for the social aspect and cannot remember quests and raids even if they want to. This is the reason I don’t call people out unless they become an ass to the people around them. As a side note, Definition of ass is all relative to the eye of the beholder. i.e. Griefing people a bit fine, calling people gimp and useless not fine.

        DDO is full of bugs and until one of the Dev come out and say so and so is not working as intended, people will continue to use a feature knowingly or unknowingly thinking it is working as intended.

        Micki pointed out she was using a bug. You guys did not know what was causing it until Micki pointed that out. Fair enough. There are people using the current bug wolf build not that does not know swf + twf + double strike is not working as intended. All they do is follow build plans and suggestion from others without knowing the mechanic of the game.

        My question is, would you say they are not using an exploit because they did not know its not a bug?

        Anyways, I am done since you explained you guys did not know she had the toggle on.

        off topic Thaz along with other people has complained directly to me about my play style. I appreciate their honesty to remind me to slow down a bit when there are other people around me that doesn’t play at the same pace me and my friend do. I had Thaz and some other people said to me that when my friend and I are together in the same group we are much worse for the people around us. I am not an easy person to get along. People either like me or they don’t.

      • I had missed this comment.

        Dear L.

        1. You seem to be claiming that Even did not know she had the toggle on. I donno, the fact that she was unable to die might have given her a clue? I don’t know about you, but if something odd happens with my character, I would wonder what’s causing it. I feel that claiming that she had no clue she was using this feature is really underestimating her intelligence.

        2. Short was talking about exploit builds. I have never played or built an exploit build. By definition, an exploit build is a build that was build specifically to take advantage of a bugged feature or similar. When Thaz was treeing, I had made her into a shiradi cleric. It was not until I was specifically asked if I could use tree, that I decided to get tree. In tree she was doing more dps than she was as a shiradi, and it was fun while it lasted. But claiming that she was a tree build or an exploit build is false. She was not built to be a tree.

        3. Pointing out that I was using a bug, does not take away the fact that Even posted a video of her using one. You claim that she did not know. I will give her the benefit of the doubt, maybe she did not know that the feature was bugged. But I do not buy that she didn’t know she was using it. You are trying to claim that she is mentally handicapped and I just don’t buy it. I give her more credit than that.

        Now, I have said what I wanted to. Please leave and never come back.

      • …Oh bite me, I never claimed or even hinted that she’s mentally handicapped. Believe me, I plan on never coming back.

  6. oops have to make a correction

    My question is, would you say they are not using an exploit because they did not know its a bug?

  7. As my friend have said to me before. Things can change. Just because they said no a year ago does not mean its no forever. If someone play with bugs in the past doesn’t mean they will continue to use bugs and that they are bad player. Our past does not always set how we are in the present and in the future. If the person view has changed, then the onus is on them to let others know through action, be it an apology or in a stretch DDO sense, leave the guild or change in play style. We give them the benefit of the doubt and move on. If they don’t say anything, not our fault to have our guard up.

    My writing skill is not great. English is my second language and I have better things to focus on in life more than hone in on writing skill.

  8. People talking behind your back are everywhere. I have a few in game as well and so in my real life. That’s simply how it is and there isn’t really any right approach you could take. You can confront them or you can ignore them, I usually choose the latter because in the end it is always a waste of time anyways. It takes some time to realise it but why try to please someone who doesn’t want it. If the gossiping hasn’t reached some unbearable measures which seems it did not, I would just let it go. It sucks, it hurts but it looks like you have some friends standing behind your back so just spend time with them and screw the haters.

    • I know people talk. The only time I’m really bothered by it, is when it creates negative prejudge. When people who don’t even know me suddenly act/ react in a different way than they would if they hadn’t been listening to bs.

      I have myself been guilty of shunning someone because of something someone else said. I really don’t want to be that kind of person. I even ignore it when my husband tells me someone in game is an idiot or such.. I want to create my own impression of people. Many times my experience has been different. We all make mistakes and putting it against people is putting ourselves on a pedestal higher than others..

      Anyway, I am going to follow the advice and ignore the haters. People who talk shit and listen to bs, aren’t really the kind of people I want in my life anyway.

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