Huge diff between elite and hard

So, As you know I have a lvl 17 sorcerer, that jumped a few levels, lvl 10–>16. I’m not regretting my decision, but he is definitely my weekest toon. His sister Maidae is at lvl 15 many times tougher, even though Cerge takes out foes a lot faster (yeah, ok, so she’s monk). Anywho, after he did such a good job in Orchard at lvl 16, I’ve been sort of expecting a lot of him. So, the other day I tried to run Mired in Kobolds elite. Come on now, Mired is a lvl 13 quest and Cerge is 17, elite would still only make it 15. But for some reason, I’m only now learning that it doesn’t work like that. Lvl 13 elite != (does not equal) lvl 15 normal. That run Cerge and his cleric hireling didn’t make it past the first red named (or are they orange? I can’t tell). So yesterday I decided to try again, this time I pulled out a gold seal barb as well (Cerge had won him in a lottery, but I believe this hire was only lvl 12). We got past the second group of mobs, but even with a bunch of times running back to the start, the casters just got the best of us and we wiped.

Elite means that the mobs just have nasty high saves. Cerge just wasn’t doing enough damage, and was out of mana at the first crystal. So, I decided to just get over myself and run it on hard (I do have a thing for running elites, my main has run almost everything elite lvl 1-19, except some raids). I was very surpriced at the huge difference between elite and hard. This time I was getting insta kills, mobs were taking a nice amount of damage, and I didn’t have any problems with mana management. I did the optional, and I didn’t run out of mana fighting Varath. It did help, though, that my cleric hire kept Varath’s aggro until she was below 50%, so I could just stand there and hit her over and over again with my spells. Victory! πŸ™‚ I decided to skip Sinvala, though, since I had used both shrines outside of the fighting area, and I didn’t think my mana bar would last fighting her.

Then I headed over to Acid Wit. Acid wit is a lvl 15 quest in the Twelve. I went in on hard (breaking my elite streak by doing so), with my lvl 17 cleric and lvl 12 barb hire (or could he have been 14?). I realized pretty quickly that the casters heal everyone else, so my tactic: look for casters and FoD them, before casting on the other mobs. I did get insta kills on 99% of all casters. I was also using sonic blast a lot, since I realized it’s pretty awesome, hehe. πŸ™‚ I mean, yeah. It doesn’t do a lot of damage, and a lot of mobs save, but it cost u only 4 sp, and it’s very fast to cast (i.e. u can spam it easily), so if u only get a few of the mobs stunned for a few seconds, it’s already a lot of help.

44 minutes later we had killed the end boss and taken out all the stonies (got just over 10 k xp) πŸ™‚ We did manage to die in the end fight, but I had on purpose saved the shrine and pulled the boss a bit closer, so I could cast at him while being close enough to the shrine to res if I were to die. We wiped, res’d, rested, and headed back down. Luckily the boss didn’t regen, so I took him out pretty easily by spamming polar ray. After looting I decided to try the optional “Defeat the Acid-Scar vengence seekers”, even though I was down to maybe 1/3 mana. I took out 17 of them before I went down, hirelings still standing, but cleric out of mana.

So, to come to a conclusion, elite is definitely a lot harder than hard, and does not equal the level it says on the quest report. πŸ™‚ I believe I should try running some lvl 16 quests hard with Cerge, I think he’d do well. Maybe I even try the vale quests?

Tc, and see you in game.

P.S. Cerge still has a long way to go before lvl 18. I think I need to find a suitable quest to farm solo… or see if I can find someone else farming something.

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20 comments on “Huge diff between elite and hard

  1. I can never tell the difference between orange and red myself… which is why I changed the settings so “orange” is actually kinda greenish. Which, of course, confuses me when I forget I did that and talk about something being green-named. Or rather, confuses whoever I’m talking to LOL

    And yes, elite is a *lot* nastier than just scaling a quest up two levels. You want fun, do something on Elite… and then do something on Casual that’s at the same effective level (so an elite 12 and casual 15, say). The difference is kinda mindblowing, even though they’re technically the same level LOL

  2. @kris XD hehe. don’t u know that even their mother gets them confused?

    @LrdSlvrhnd XD I just call orange and red “red name”, I guess there is a difference, but I don’t think it matters that much πŸ™‚ Some kind of a bit tougher opponent anyway, or rare.

    πŸ™‚ Since I’ve basically only been running elites, I hadn’t noticed the difference before. Well, I don’t usually solo either, so this is a bit new to me. πŸ™‚ I am a bit intimidated by joining random pugs, though, I usually send a tell to see if they’ll have me. Yesterday I did sen a running with the devils party leader a tell, that I could give it a go but, that I’m really squishy. πŸ™‚ He replied “what’s really”. Well Cerge’s unbuffed at 266 hp, with ship and rage 300, which I replied. Either they didn’t want him, or they got someone else, don’t know. I would prefer people be a bit polite though, but you can’t expect everything.

    πŸ™‚ Hey, I’ve run e.g. Lords of dust twice elite on Cerge already, and he has no problems in there. He does a good running away, he’s at 2200 sp, and he self heals. So, the low hp isn’t that huge of a deal, even though with poor saves, he can’t be in the middle of battle, but has to stay back.

  3. Yep a simple sorry would have been nice, if i get ingnored im usually glad i wasnt in the group as i probably wouldnt enjoy it if something bad happened, not saying he ignored because of your hp, he may have missed it or was afk but yeh sometimes it happens πŸ™‚

    Just for a laugh i tried servants of the overlord on epic elite, i can do the first fight on hard without problems but the first rakshasa lord just wiped the floor with me πŸ˜€

  4. lol right now, EVERYONE is “really squishy” for Elite Running with the Devils. You can have 700hp and still not make it past the first room. Hopefully with Patch 2 they’ll fix some of the more insane casters and traps in Elite quests. I don’t expect them to be cakewalks, but at the moment some of them are almost next to impossible to complete at-level.

  5. I also take a long time to realize that huge gap between hard and elite in high level quests.

    And it must be increasing with updates. Last time I tried to do “running with devils” on elite we were wiped which so much light damage that i’m wondering if i’ll try it again above hard =) And I was with my lvl 17 cleric and a full party of lvl 20 guildies.

    And the worst thing is to do elite mired in kobolds just to die in the final boss. It’s almost impossible to kill the dragon only with hire, because the casters around it heal themselves and keep beating the health out of you…

  6. Mired is the easiest of the two quest you talked about. And i soloed it many many times on caster lives while TRing. And i have failed it many times too.

    But if you forget most of the trash and focus on the crystal doing the AoE thing on the big groups of trash and keep moving you should get to the dragons. The dragon fight is back petal and dots using what ever healing you can. Hires will not help. Often other players don’t help although Fo and I have a good system worked out now. Oh and DD out if needed. you can get back in.

  7. πŸ™‚ I ran Mired Elite with my monk at lvl 14, with a full party of lvl 13-14, and we took out Sinvala. My monk just kicks butt. πŸ™‚ Sorce’s pretty weak. Y, I did the crystal thing, but my problem was still the casters, and them hitting me with comet fall for close to half my hp, then regenerating the damage I had caused them. On hard I was able to FoD the casters, while on elite, I hit them for maybe 1/4 damage with whatever I tried, and then the buggers regenerate. Safe to say it was a lost cause πŸ™‚

    I have only run the Vale quests once on elite with my cleric, and before the update. I believe we did them on level, and I don’t remember them being too hard. Might have been a really good party, though. Well, yeah, I did solo Rainbow normal on Thaz for Pebbles, but that’s it.

  8. Lammania Patch 14.2 states heroic elite traps will be toned down, so I expect that soon.

    No mention of monsters IIRC thought, but there is a line about scaling being toned down in general.

    I finished 2 lives since update 14. I can’t wait for them to fix this since this life my group has no trap monkey at all. Every time we level they urge me to take a rogue level haha but it would take a LR+1/x so I can add the rogue level at 1.

    Been reluctant since I am having fun trying all the new druid toys.

  9. Here is the thing. You are a WF sorc. Do NOT get hires. Do NOT use them. Even gold add to the scaling. Forgo hires. You’re first life, uberness for elites in a WF sorc comes from having twink gear… that cannot be got on first life. We’re talking con-opp, vibrant purple unsurpressed (HUGE at low levels) and torc. But first life can still breeze. Again, you’re WF, skip hires.

    You are a sorc. Instakills on elite will be difficult, and you are WF even lower DCs. Gather foes, abuse AOEs. Delayed Blast Fireball and Fireballs are for twinked out super SP life 2+ toons, not for you. They have the large guild slot, the vibrant purple, the con-opp, the torc, they can afford the crazy mana. And still they use Firewall more than anything.
    I leveled with acid rain and web as I was conjuration (unfortunately dragging a hireling as I was human). Fire is more optimal until level 18 when you swap to ice (if we’re talking optimal). Abuse that firewall and web and disco; hop around like a crazy person, use reconstruct when you’re down a hefty amount of HP… also stack reconstruct scrolls for between fights to save you even more mana.

    WF sorc first life can do elite. However, some elites are WAY harder than other elites; some elites are harder or easier depending on the class. But general fire savant WF will wipe the floor in a great majority of quests. Acid Wit instakills are difficult even on a necro on elite, my sorcerer ran that using ice AOEs (obviously a crap quest for an acid savant lol).
    Tactics also vary greatly between a monk, a wizard, a divine and a sorcerer. Tactics also vary depending on race of said classes.

    TL;DR: Stop using hires, use firewall and any other AOE you have (are you acid secondary? it’d be easier than lightning secondary for example), hop around like a fool using one AOE and one CC (though maybe on WF better two AOEs and skip the CC in most content – in elite they won’t land well for you unless acid conj savant with webs).

  10. PS: Why’s your WF sorc so squishie? She sounds more squishie than my poor human sorc was leveling. 32 pt, 16 CHA, 20 CON + Toughness, +6 stat item, GFL = way way better HP. Want some help farming toughness item (there’s a bracer in Harbringer chain end reward list or the minos legens – bracers are easier to obtain)? I doubt I have CON+6 item around or GFL item as I craft, but we can always do one run of elite Sane Asylum up to Fred and score you GFL and CON+1 and exc fort 10% trinket.

    Anything to help a fellow sorc wipe the floor and enjoy the awesomeness that is sorc. I am biased, I love the class so much.

  11. Definitely echo deahamlet’s sentiments that not all elites are alike. Elite Tangleroot, Bloody Crypt, Shadow Crypt, Offering of Blood and Wizard King, I could barely tell any difference. On others, such as Storm the Beaches, Running With the Devils, and the protective custody part of Ritual Sacrifice, casters seem to be able to 2-shot everyone to death. Add in tripping, telekinesis and knockdown, and it’s evolved from tricky to a suicide run.

  12. @dea He’s water savant, so no fire at all. He’s got the savant spells Niac’s Cold Ray and Snowball Swarm with metas (I ditched empower for toughness, but he’s got maximize and heighten), then cone of cold and polar ray. Polar ray’s great, but rather expensive. Cone of cold works great when he’s surrounded. He’s also got Finger of Death, Disintegrate, Phantasmal Killer and Flesh to stone. He’s got air as backup with lightning bolt. CC spells are web and disco ball. Other spells: charm person, otto’s (lvl 1), sonic blast, hold monster, enervation… and then I believe the rest are buffs (blur, displacement, protection from energy, resist energy, haste, stoneskin) and dd.

    You can check out his stats and gear here: http://my.ddo.com/character/orien/cerge/, I believe it’s up to date. That’s his unbuffed state. The cloak is feather fall, the belt heavy fort and he’s got cha+6 on the flameward. In his other hand he has a cold spell boosting dagger.

    He was fire savant up to lvl 16, when I switched to water, since I’ve learned that a lot of foes are immune to fire on the higher levels. πŸ™‚ This will not be an end game sorc, I plan to TR at 20 and not even flag for any raids. Next life: wizard, then fvs, then cleric or druid…

  13. Oh, btw, he has minos. πŸ™‚ He just isn’t using it, because he has a tiara of archmagi XD

    His docent is the Infused Chaos Docent.

  14. The main difference is that a lot of abilities that don’t affect red-nameds DO affect green-, I mean orange-nameds. Monk stuns & banish/jades, weapon vorpal effects, CC, etc. It can be extremely useful to know exactly when to try to jade and/or banish that orange-named beholder, and when to just pummel the heck out of that red-named one! (I’m sure there’s stuff sorcs can do to orange-nameds that they can’t to red-nameds as well…)

  15. Start with this post by Isharah: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=361303

    Ice is easier for me to speak to as my main is ice/acid. Tbh lightning spells are far too DC intensive for a WF sorc first life, but that’s okay.
    Too many spells do not take advantage of your savant choice. You’re missing Frost Lance (whose amazing-ness only rises at high levels, but at 18 you get it as SLA), Ice Storm – my favourite AOE after firewall, lasts much longer than acid rain (again lightning is a tough choice as it has no persistent AOE), Otiluke – my favourite spell to throw. Otiluke’s does not require you to be within close range making it much safer than cone of cold (it can be evaded tho so something to remember for rogue enemies).
    Ball Lightning is an amazing spell, kind of like Otiluke and Acid Blast. Chain Lightning is amazing, I love it on my wizard, lightning bolt is meh at times due to how buggy I find it to be when aiming.

    You need ice storm, you need otilukes and ball lightning (and chain as well) – aka more DPS, less instakills on a WF sorc. Not sure if you went evocation or conjuration, but you can upgrade infused chaos docent to add +2 to your conjuration spells (and illusion for Phantasmal).
    Charm and Hold are a tad of a waste on a sorc.
    Web, ice storm, hop around. Before that, otiluke+ball lightning+chain lightning = most likely all dead, make sure to have 6+ enemies at least.

  16. πŸ™‚ ooh, I have ran with Isharah, btw. Last time in Mired with Maidae πŸ™‚

    I’ve been reading this one: The Sorcerer’s Handbook: A Guide to Building and Playing Sorcerers, even though it’s outdated.

    I should probably change my enhancements and ditch air for acid. I need more AOE spells, and acid rain would prolly be good. I went evocation. Cerge hasn’t eaten any tomes, except a +2 cha tome. Feats so far: Toughness, Extend spell, Maximize spell, Spell focus: evocation, heighten spell (my discos are always heightened). I should probably swap extend for something else, but I’ve already done 2 feat swaps and the second was rather expensive. I could of course LR him, but that’s a lot of work. But maybe I should.

    I guess I need to check the spells again. I do have one dragon blood left, so I can completely change my spell list if I wish.

    I plan to change to the Quorforged Docent of Battle when Cerge hits 18.

    And thank you.

  17. At high levels feat changes are expensive. If you just plan on TRing, you can live with Extend. You need Quicken, like… yesterday! On WF sorc, Quicken should be after Toughness, SF: Evo (only cause you need it for savant).

  18. Pingback: Micki’s Delirium - Blog Archive - Breaking up with my sorc

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